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More ramblings
I'm sure I could draw more period sources for my Cranach gown but I don't have the money for the arnold books right now, and I have a hard time finding infor on this style of gown online. Kohler mentions it breifly in his book but it doesn't go into construction details. Therefore 'Nise is thinking, and we all know what results when that happens! Lots of smoke!
Seriously my theroy for these gowns is that they are circa 1520-1530's. Since that is not to far off of the 1400's, and we are talking an area more of the beaten path to England, and since the paintings shilohetts show no sign of rigid corsetting this is hypothisis on how they did it. I think that the white panel shown in the front of the dresses is a seperate fitted undergown. I beleive that this provided the majority of the bust shapping ala "gothic fitting." The remainder of the bust shaping was performed but the breast band. As of right now my underdress is going to be a peachy linen (I am currently trying to bleach it) for a lining and a white linen outer side. It will lace in the back. I have two theorys on the breastband. I am using a silk for the outer part in the front. The lining will be more of the peach linen. I am going to have it both wrap entirely around my torso and lace into the over dress if possible. The over dress will be of cotton velvet and a gold brocade (poly cotton, purist can deal). I intend to use rolled pleats and hemp or just cord to stiffen the brocaded gaurds on the front opening edges. I am planning on internal lacing strips. There will be embroidery, probably some on the underdress cuffs and collar and definatly on the breast band. Manny puffs and slashes will be used. :)
Seriously my theroy for these gowns is that they are circa 1520-1530's. Since that is not to far off of the 1400's, and we are talking an area more of the beaten path to England, and since the paintings shilohetts show no sign of rigid corsetting this is hypothisis on how they did it. I think that the white panel shown in the front of the dresses is a seperate fitted undergown. I beleive that this provided the majority of the bust shapping ala "gothic fitting." The remainder of the bust shaping was performed but the breast band. As of right now my underdress is going to be a peachy linen (I am currently trying to bleach it) for a lining and a white linen outer side. It will lace in the back. I have two theorys on the breastband. I am using a silk for the outer part in the front. The lining will be more of the peach linen. I am going to have it both wrap entirely around my torso and lace into the over dress if possible. The over dress will be of cotton velvet and a gold brocade (poly cotton, purist can deal). I intend to use rolled pleats and hemp or just cord to stiffen the brocaded gaurds on the front opening edges. I am planning on internal lacing strips. There will be embroidery, probably some on the underdress cuffs and collar and definatly on the breast band. Manny puffs and slashes will be used. :)
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Would there be a time when we could chat via IM or I could call you? If it would be better for me to call, I would need your phone #. I have Yahoo IM and ICQ.
Hope you're having a good week so far! I miss you! XOXOX
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Have fun!
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My personal suspicion is there was an undergown, but that the white part and the brustfleck are not part of it. This is bourne out by a number of images showing women partly dressed. yay for Cranach and his need to paint half naked women. Few other German masters did at this stage;)
http://frazzledfrau.glittersweet.com/cranach.htm SHould take you to my page with the Lucretia's sorted out so you can see the brustfleck and white panel pulled away from the body. Of course the chemise is either missing or has a super deep neckline;) or he's ommitted underlayers. My personal theory is the latter. And that there is possibly another layer of clothing he's ommitting too.
Think of all the larger busted ladies who followed the German fashion. How many could seriously be held up by just a band. A decorative band at that that you wouldn't want ruined, and would want to be able to be removed to not get washed. It's quite likely that they were pinned in. Personally I think pinned to the underdress as well as gown as that gives great stability to the neckline.
The white part is also different in different paintings: sometimes absolutely smooth, sometimes finely gathered looking, sometines solidly ridged looking, sometimes a different colour, sometimes a combination!
As for construction, you can't go past:
http://frazzledfrau.glittersweet.com/mary
There is a link to a site that contains a diagram layout for the dress. It's what I used for my yellow 1520s gown:
http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/1520.htm
You might find it easier if your undergown laces at the side. To get into and out of, as well as be rather authentic to the period.